Sawyer says sign 'grandfathered'
Last Updated on 12/1/2008
Published on 9/7/2008
Written by Tommy Howard
Marty Tennant, a local computer repairman and consultant, was fined $1,062 for a sign in the right-of-way for Black River Road several years ago. He was told he had to move the sign, refused to do so, and was fined.
Since that time, Tennant has filed several complaints with the City of Georgetown Building and Planning Department about other home-based businesses with signs that he says are in violation of the city's sign ordinance.
One such complaint was against Sawyer, which Tennant presented on July 3, 2008. On the complaint form, which Tennant sent by e-mail to the Georgetown Times, he indicated his issue was "Illegal sign on fence."
On July 17, then-Zoning Administrator Jamie Davis sent an e-mail to Building and Planning Director Sabrina Morris. Davis said that Sawyer called her, stating the sign had been at his home-based business since 1979.
Earlier that day, Tennant made a request under the S.C. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) via e-mail to City Administrator Steve Thomas asking for "all documents or communications related to Paige Sawyer's home based business sign located on his fence."
On July 28 Tennant sent a follow-up e-mail to Thomas and Morris.
On July 31, Davis sent a letter by certified mail to Parrish Motors telling the company -- Jeepy Ford is president -- that he had to remove 18 American flags that had been flying at his used car lot since shortly after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. They had been flying on the lot, which is only a few hundred feet from City Hall, for almost seven years.
Ford contacted Sawyer about the flags on Aug. 4, after receiving the letter that afternoon. Sawyer immediately contacted various city staff and City Council members, telling them to "BACK OFF" and leave Parrish Motor Co. and Jeepy Ford alone and let the American flags continue flying.
Sign ordinance
On Aug. 12, Davis "Hand Delivered" a letter to Sawyer about the sign she said was on his fence. She cited Article X, Section 1006 j. of the city's Sign Ordinance, which says certain signs are prohibited: "signs of any material ... shall not be ... attached to ... fences ..."
In her letter, Davis left out an important part of that same Article. It says certain signs are prohibited "... except as otherwise permitted in this Ordinance."
Section 1012 B relates to home occupation signs. It states "Home occupation signs must be mounted against the wall of the principal structure; such sign cannot be freestanding."
Tennant has a freestanding sign in the yard of his home at the corner of Black River Road and Saville Street.
Garvey and Carol Winans had a freestanding yard sign in front of their home and business on Highmarket Street. It has been removed, but Winans has a sign mounted on the tailgate of his pickup truck. He leaves the truck parked in front of the house, with the sign and an arrow pointing the way to Ye Olde Clock Menders in their home.
Section 1022 deals with "Nonconforming Signs."
This section, which Davis did not mention in her letter to Sawyer, states that a sign that doesn't meet the regulations is nonconforming.
"To avoid undue hardship, any nonconforming signs associated with single tenant uses, and wall signs in multiple-tenant developments may remain in use until such time as they are voluntarily removed by the owner ..."
Time moves on
On Aug. 13, Sawyer responded to the letter from Davis which she hand delivered on Aug. 12.
He stated in part, "If you will please inspect our sign and fence, you will see that the sign is actually attached to one of two gates that opens to our yard. If the policy doesn't say signs can't be attached to a gate, then I don't see that we're non-compliant."
He asked Davis to call him "so we can discuss this further."
Late Thursday afternoon, Sept. 4, Sawyer said he had not heard anything further from Davis or anyone else with the city about his sign.
He gave copies of his response to Building and Planning Department Director Sabrina Morris and to city Building Official Stephen Stack.
Other action
On Aug. 15, a petition filed by Conway attorney Michael Battle was "clocked in" at the Georgetown County Courthouse. In that petition, as previously reported, Battle is seeking legal action on behalf of Zoning Administrator Jamie Davis against the City of Georgetown Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA).
Through the petition filed by Battle, Davis was seeking to overturn an order signed by a majority of the BZA in the Pin Oak project case.
The city is also paying for Georgetown attorney Sherwyn Jacobs to defend the BZA against the action filed by Battle for the city.
At some point since the appeal was filed and the story about the Parrish Motors flags was published, Davis reportedly reached the end of her six-month probationary period with the city.
Sawyer said he understood that she did not resign and was not terminated, but was not retained beyond that time.
Sign saga
As for his sign, Sawyer said he and his wife bought their house at 416 Highmarket St. in 1977. In 1979, they added on to the house and moved the photography business into the addition.
"At that time, I asked the city about a sign, they said put one out front. So, I put it out front."
The fence was added around the front yard a few years later, with two gates. One gate leads to the business on the side of the house. In the early 1980s, Sawyer put the sign on the front of the gate.
"Since 1979, no one has said anything about that sign except for Mr. Tennant," Sawyer said.
On Feb. 21, 2008 City Council approved a new sign ordinance which replaced the previous version.
New home-based businesses in the Historic District will have to have their signs on the side of their buildings.
"When City Council was discussing this proposed ordinance (in late January) I asked at that time, would existing signs be grandfathered, and was told yes," Sawyer said.
"The new ordinance states that home-based business signs cannot be on a fence, and that's where I said my sign is not on a fence, it's on a gate -- where it's been for almost 30 years."
Sawyer concluded, "I have not gotten any response from the city about my response to their letter."
*
To read the entire sign ordinance, or any other part of the city's zoning ordinance, visit the city's Web site http://cogsc.com/bldgplanning.aspx.
Under the "Quick Links" at the right side of the screen are links to the various "Articles" that make up the sign ordinance. Article X is the Signs ordinance.
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People of Georgetown County... Please... why not peace? no war... =] Posted by ... on 11/19/2008
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Were Marty's signs this nice...bet not! It appears to be a very tasteful sign. (not neon or cardboard) Simple ...no phone numbers or hours of opperation or a list of what he photographs... What if photography wasn't below his name...Would it be illegal then? What if it was just a name plate? Posted by It's A Nice Sign on 9/17/2008
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Men are from Mars Marty is from Uranius Posted by Pluto on 9/17/2008
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Marv, I am from Columbia. SC originally. Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/17/2008
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OK since Marty didn't answer my question does anyone know if he is from Georgetown? I would really like to know. Posted by Marv on 9/16/2008
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John Adams any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed. The dignity of knowledge depends not on what you do but on how you use it. Fools laugh only when they don't understand knowledge. Posted by table1945 on 9/15/2008
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Marty! You didn't sign your name to your post! Are you now a chicken? For the last time moron, I'm not a lawyer. But I do believe being on record saying the sign is grandfathered is major factor in Paige's case. It submits to the spirit of the law, which is nearly as firm as the letter of the law. You CAN grandfather any sign, if stated in the law. If it isn't illegal today, and it will be tomorrow, you can make an exception today to keep it from being illegal tomorrow. Posted by xuhong gaio on 9/15/2008
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Table 1945 - We're still laughing. That last post made you sound even more ridiculous. Come on...say some more big words....haha. Posted by John Adams on 9/15/2008
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Boys not men and John Adams you have the nerve to call someone stupid both of you need to go back to school and learn composition. I will make it simple for both of you to understand that page hasn’t violated the sign law if you can read. If you think clearly and are familiar with the essential rules of good English, you will speak and write with the confidence that comes from complete awareness of the problem which you are tackling and from a sense of having had the necessary training. Until you have mastered them, you will be handicapped, for you lack the tools of the writing craft. At this point it will be helpful to state briefly what I mean by certain terms which you can’t understand about being a cry baby. Consequently, you will want to examine your own word habits carefully. Are you sure that you understand the words you use? Are they the best words with which to convey your meaning? Do not try to handle too broad a topic. It should be abundantly clear by this time that you have a problem to understand how do differentiate between facts and opinions of major importance and those that are of lesser importance. Perhaps you will find it expedient to answer all of these questions. Whatever your purpose, you must make a plan, so that you will know what to include and, more important perhaps, what to omit. Posted by table1945 on 9/14/2008
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Na, na, na, na, boo, boo Posted by MARTY FOR MAYOR on 9/14/2008
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Hey Marty, where are you from originally? Were you born in Georgetown or did you move here? Posted by marv on 9/14/2008
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Table1945 - You have said "cry baby" like a hundred times....you said it five times in one posting....you sound so stupid...who are you anyway? Posted by John Adams on 9/12/2008
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Table1945 you proved my point exactly...grammar well spelled incorrectly to show how people on her nit pick over the smallest of things. Have you people no lives? How empty you must be to sit her and pick fights with others that you don't even know? How about go outside and help clean the streets,plant a flower or something!! Posted by Boys not men on 9/12/2008
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I am trying to move a large business to Gtown but after reading this stuff I think I will stay where I am. Posted by Mark J on 9/12/2008
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It's sad that with all the other problems this town has so much energy is being devoted to something so trivial as signs. I agree that if one person has to abide by the rules and regulations, then ALL people should abide by the same rules and regulations. However, this has gotten tiresome and Marty and Paige now look like children having a showdown on the playground to show just who the boss is. Again, there are many more worthwhile causes to devote time and positive energy to besides who has a sign and where it's hanging and how long it's been hanging there. Posted by OICU812 on 9/11/2008
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Why does the City of Georgetown allow Marty Tennant to park his car at his residence with his home business signs attached to it? You can clearly see the business ad on the car where it is parked in his yard. That should be illegal. Also, his wife does the same thing in Pawleys Island with her car outside of her "rented space" of a business. That should also be a violation. Posted by Question on 9/11/2008
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xuhong gaio, the lawyer, who normally just wants to bash me, now asks an intelligent question. So you think Paige asking if existing signs were grandfathered makes his sign ok? You cannot grandfather illegal signs. End of story. If Paige goes before the Board of Zoning Appeals, and pays his $300, the question is not grandfathering, the question is "fence" vs. "gate". That is the issue. He will lose in my opinion. I doubt he'll even appeal, because he voted to raise the appeal cost to $300 and now he has to sleep in that bed. I think he will blink at the cost. Posted by on 9/11/2008
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Marty the only subject you post about is YOU. To get back on the subject of Paige's sign and its legality--Is the part that Paige asks about his sign being grandfathered before the vote on record? Posted by xuhong gaio on 9/11/2008
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If you know it, you don't show it. You show your ignorance. Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/11/2008
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Mr. Tennant: I know a lot more than you do about this town. I was born here, raised here and have lived here most of my 57 years, so you have no knowledge of what you are posting as far as what I know and what I don't know about what goes on in G'town. I would suspect you don't have very much knowledge about a lot of things around here with the exception of your own agenda. The truth is not about this TOWN. The truth is about the politics of this town and how it is run-DUH!!!!! Posted by Whatever on 9/11/2008
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The last two posters know nothing about the sad history of this town that preceded Steve Thomas and Sabrina. No rear view mirror = blind spot. So sorry for you. I will post anywhere on any subject. If you don't like it, don't read it. The truth about this town will come out and there will be a cleaning. Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/11/2008
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Mr. Tennant: If anyone came after you, more than likely it is because you put yourself in that position. I haven't heard of any group that goes by the name of "Let's go after Marty Tennant". It does sound to me as though you have nothing better to do than stir the pot. Of course as with anyone else, you do have a right to voice your opinion, but not a million times on one subject-get a life!! Posted by Whatever on 9/11/2008
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Why does Marty make everything about him? I am sick of hearing about him and his business and how everyone in the city is against him. Do what you like Mary!! Put a sign on the blame hospital and point it at your house! WHO CARES!!! Posted by Sick of Marty and I don't even know him!!! on 9/11/2008
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No, not bored at all, and I have a wonderful life, probably better than yours. I do have a problem with selective enforcement. If they are going to come after me, they need to enforce the law against all. Do you really have a problem with that, or are you some kind of royalty that thinks they are above the law? If this were marijuana or cocaine, I imagine you'd be screaming to have people arrested. It is obvious that the Winans are thumbing their nose at the City, just like Paige. Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/11/2008
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Marty Tennant needs to get a life!! He is so boring and obviously is a bored person. Posted by Whatever on 9/11/2008
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Sent to Steve and Sabrina today: I am formally complaining about the parking of a truck in the front of Ye Old Clock Menders with directional signs pointing to the business. I understand this is a violation of law. ************** If not, can I start parking my car with lots of signs on it in the right of way on Black River Rd.? I promise not to block motorist vision. Maybe it would be better if I parked it in front of the Hospital in the ROW. Do I need a permit for this? ************ It sure would help me get more attention for my business. ************** Many thanks, Marty Tennant Posted by on 9/11/2008
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The "child" complains about the town and us wasting our time posting but he post almost the same comment on several other stories? Yeah, we are the ones posting "Mickey Mouse nonsense". If you don't like this town LEAVE. If your parents will let you. Posted by LOL on 9/10/2008
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You people seem to have a lot of time on your hands. There is an article on this page asking for mentors for high school students. Why not make yourself useful and volunteer! If you want to make Georgetown a better place, put some action behind your words. Help create a new generation of leaders. Posted by bigmomma on 9/10/2008
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We are still active, but I will agree with you, this forum (it is not a blog, and neither is mine) serves an excellent purpose. ******** I am happy the Times set it up. It is a great place to express yourself. ******* The biggest positive is that more and more people get to see what their fellow citizens are thinking and saying. Just what we started doing at The Citizens' Report years ago. ****** I think they co-exist nicely. I think The Citizens' Report is more of a place where people can throw ideas around, post actual documents, report on news events themselves, and expose things independent of the paper. That is still important. The comments section here is more of a place for quick comments on the news. We are more thread oriented. They are article oriented. ******* I'm impressed with what the head tech dude, Nick, has done here. They've let him innovate, and he has. I wish he'd allow paragraph formating so you can organize your thoughts better without resorting to "**********". Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/10/2008
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I wouldn't open a business in this eyesore dump of a historic town (other than a title loan business with neon colors and signage and crops growing in the parking lot) which should pass with flying colors. Even A CHILD can find better things to do with his time -who probably would be more qualified to bring this filthy dump town out of the recession that its been in since the end of the rice era- or preocupy his time with anything other than this Mickey Mouse nonsense! Posted by A CHILD on 9/10/2008
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The funny thing is this blog has overridden Tennant's one. No one posts over there anymore but Marty. Posted by City man on 9/10/2008
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Boys not men you need to go back to school and learn how to spell grammar. Posted by table1945 on 9/10/2008
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It's doesn't table1945..his sign doesn't break the ordinance..35 yrs. for the federal government but the grammer doesn't reflect it. Anyways, you guys have no life. Fighting over a sign while our children are fighting for their lives on the streets. Be real men and find a way to fix that problem. Posted by Boys not men.... on 9/10/2008
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I served 35 years and 10 months for the federal government. Devil Dog it sounds like to me you served as a cook in the Marine Corps and I consider you a big cry baby. The place Page has his sign don't break the ordnance law if you can read. Law is only principles that man has put together to guide people in this life not cause problems like you liberal cry babies. Page has had a business in his home for over thirty years and now some of you want to him to remove his sign what problem has this sign created for any of you? No, he is not breaking the sign ordnance law as some of you have made this statement and no we are not above the law but you people sound like a child who want to have his way and can’t have it. Jump in the river and cool off before you burn up from the heat. Posted by table1945 on 9/10/2008
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china chicken man? Is that the best you have for this "piece of work"? I have answered you in the past. You're baiting me so you can figure out who I am. I did not grow up on the tard farm where you were raised. Have you ever noticed that you only care about identities when you are a 'victim'? If I was kissing your butt, you would love me, not knowing who I am. You are two faced and a hypocrit. This article was never about you until you wanted to be recognized. It still isn't about you, but you want recognition anyway. I thought you were going to ignore me from now on? Liar. Georgetown. But which one? Posted by xuhong gaio on 9/9/2008
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Table1945, so does that mean ALL of us, that have served our country are not governed under the same laws as the rest? I served 24 years in the Marine Corps, Then I served our state for 12 years. I missed this out briefing at retirement, can you post this article show when I don't want to follow the law, I can just waved my pass. Does this also include dependents? Do they also get a pass? Why does he insist that he should be exempt from the same laws. Wouldn't it be a better example to adhere the the sign policy. Our leaders should lead by example not, "do as I say, not as I do". As for name calling, you seem to be the one calling names. So get a life "NANCY". Posted by DEVIL DOG on 9/9/2008
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New documents are available below on the ongoing saga of the folks that would rather break the law than comply. Gee. I was accused of breaking the law and paid a $1,062 fine. These folks are given nice letters and told to please remove or appeal, but no fine. What gives? ********* Will Paige find the $300? Will Winans comply and also remove his stupid illegal truck/signs? Stay tuned as we continue with "AS THE GEORGETOWN WORLD SQUIRMS". ************** http://user5164.hugehost.net/paigemustappeal.pdf ************ http://user5164.hugehost.net/winansmustremove.pdf ********** Hey china chicken man. Do you even live in Georgetown? Just answer that one question chicken man. I bet you won't. CHICKEN! Posted by Marty Tennant on 9/9/2008
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Let me make something clear to all you cry babies. Paige didn't say a thing about him serving in Vietnam. I did and you cry babies can go jump in a river. Also the sign Paige has up don’t break the sign ordnance, you cry babies need to read it and stop this entire name calling. Yes, our services in the Military do give us an edge over some of you misinformed people. I consider all of you cry babies a big joke. Posted by table1945 on 9/9/2008
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More lies, Marty? I'm using my real name, you just think it isn't. How can you call me a liar with no proof? Seems you like calling Man something other with no proof. You were not the issue from the story, you were the history. This issue is whether the sign is legal or not. The issue is not whether Marty had an illegal sign, or that he is the one crying over someone else's sign, its whether the spirit and/or letter of the ordinance is broken by City Hall. Only Marty Tennant will compensate for his own shortfalls by bringing attention to himself by claiming to be an innocent bystander. your are sad, you are disgraceful, and only lawyers will be able to figure this one out for the City, not a half pint self serving litigationist like Marty. Posted by xuhong gaio on 9/9/2008
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There is a rumor floating around the great city of Georgetown...A person is being paid a considerable amount of money to snatch the Sawyer Sign...Do we need to go this far.. Both the snatcher and sawyer should be charged as a lawbreakers..Amen!! By the way, wouldn't it be nice if all vets received a pass to break the law.. What a stupid statement..by some ole cogger like me.. Posted by Snatch The Sign on 9/9/2008
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I think we can all agree that if Marty were the city administrator, he'd have been fired by now. Posted by always the optimist on 9/9/2008
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Yes, there is a lot of talk about the sign and I, for one, agree that it should come down. But, the issue here is Paige Sawyer, elected City Councilman, who in the opinion of many is skirting the law. If any of you were on City Council and knew that you were doing nothing for the people who elected you, and were being bounced around like a beach ball, would not you just throw your hands up and resign? I would. Also, back during the election cycle that put Paige BACK on council, there were many, many Paige bumper sticks showing support. Wonder how many of those same people would put a bumper sticker on their car today? Do nothing Paige, do nothing Council, do nothing Mayor, and overall a do nothing City Government. Posted by What Now? on 9/9/2008
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